Baez Real Estate Podcast

Episode 36 Refinance When It Saves You Real Money

• Alex Baez / Hidey Baez

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Rates are finally easing, but smart moves still come down to math, paperwork, and timing. We open up about our first year running the business, why having a lender who answers on weekends changes everything, and how lower rates can revive buying power for first-time buyers and investors alike. Then we get practical: when does refinancing make sense, and how do you calculate a realistic breakeven so you don’t trade one headache for another?

From there, we tackle a deal killer most people overlook: underground oil tanks. Banks worry, insurers hedge, and buyers get spooked—often for good reason. We share what to check with your lender, which inspections matter, and how to negotiate a clean solution by moving the tank above ground with permits and full removal documentation. We also highlight a costly trap: sellers turning off utilities in vacant homes. Locked meters, permit hurdles, and surprise five-figure bills can wreck closing timelines. Our checklist shows you how to verify status with the utility and keep your deal safe.

We also unpack COPA—the Community Opportunity to Purchase Act—and how a nonprofit first-right process could affect four-plus unit buildings. Expect longer timelines, potential fines for skipping the process, and new underwriting risks that may change pricing and strategy. Add in New York’s relentless demand and rising rents, and you’ve got a market where preparation beats speed. If you’re buying, selling, or refinancing, this conversation gives you a clear playbook: know your numbers, secure the right documents, and plan for the real-world frictions that kill deals.

Enjoy the episode, then share your take: would COPA protect tenants or stall much-needed transactions? If you found this helpful, follow the show, leave a quick review, and send this to a friend who’s house hunting or refinancing this year.

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SPEAKER_01:

Hello everyone and welcome to Bias Real Estate Podcast. And I'm here with Angela. And I'm Alex Bias. And we're excited, guys. It's the end of the year, Angelo.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. Holiday season came around.

SPEAKER_01:

Our last podcast of the year.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And our first year of the business.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So it's actually, we actually made a year with our company. We went on our own. Business has been great. We helped a lot of families. And our goal is to help out, help out more families buy or sell real estate. We specialize in buying on commercial and residential sales. So anyone that has questions out there, please don't hesitate. What do you think about the first year, Angela?

SPEAKER_00:

I think the first year we definitely had a lot that we needed to do, right? And I thought it was going to be a lot slower in in terms of business, but it's actually been ramping up a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's actually been busy. And first got right. Business has been picking up. Me, you, Chris have been very busy. Heidi, our preferred lender. She's been assisting us with getting the financing for these buyers. As you guys know, it's a one-stop one-shop deal. Heidi's our preferred lender. She assists us on getting our buyers pre-approved and helping you out with the best financing, best closing calls, plus interest rates as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And the fact that we have her right at arm's reach all the time, it's like such a blessing because sometimes like you won't be able to like get in contact with the lenders and stuff. And you'll be like, what's what's going on with this file? Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, like most lenders don't work weekends, right? Heidi's seven days. You know, she's always available. If you have any questions on mortgages related, Heidi is your go-to.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, she'll make the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And the good news is that rates are dropping.

SPEAKER_00:

Rates are dropping. Yeah. Look at that. I mean, a lot of people are going to be looking to basically start looking for homes now that they're a lot lower. And it's going to be interesting to see what's going to happen with the prices with homes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So, you know, everyone is expecting for it to crash. I mean, I don't see it happening anytime soon, especially with these rates going down. You know, the feds they keep going down a little bit as time goes. And I was told that if I'm not mistaken, January and February, it should be going more down, the rates. So it's great. The rates are going down. I think the economy is getting better. So the rates are dropping drastically.

SPEAKER_00:

What what what percentage do you think like when it hits a certain percent, like four percent or something like that? When will it be like? When do you think it's gonna be like crazy? Like so many buyers are just gonna start popping up. Like once they break through four.

SPEAKER_01:

I think once they break through four to five, it's gonna give more opportunities to more buyers, right? Because the lower the rate is, the more the client qualifies, right? The buyer qualifies. So it is dry, it is dropping drastically. I mean, last year we were selling rate, mortgages were closing at seven and a half, you know. Yeah, high six, high six, high seven. So, you know, we have buyers sometimes, some it'll be three to four buyers in a loan, which is a lot of buyers in a loan, right? So we are seeing that you know, it's opening more doors for buyers, right? Right. Your first-time buyer, right? Your investor. It's gonna be it's gonna make sense, especially for those investors. It's gonna make sense for the investors now, you know, to keep investing into properties. It's gonna make sense now the numbers.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, no, absolutely. And those people who we were mentioning that did the 7%, right? When they bought, now that they're heading like to fives and stuff, now you can start to look to refinance because it's two percent or so.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, all those buyers that we I used to always tell them that, like, yeah, your rate's probably seven and a half, refinance it, right? Bring it, bring it down. I mean, two points is a big difference.

SPEAKER_00:

It is. Usually that's like from what I've heard, right? That's like generally the acceptable range to like start refinancing because you do have cost towards refinancing at 2% or higher and difference, that's when it makes absolute sense. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

It's all about the you know, the numbers make sense, right? And also most importantly is that when the bank qualifies, because you could you could you definitely qualify to purchase. Yeah. So just have that in mind that if you pre-approve and you qualify, you know, it means you you can afford it, in other words, as is as long as you feel comfortable with the numbers. That's what matters.

SPEAKER_00:

It's always about the numbers. Like if the numbers make sense, you go for it. If they don't, you don't, because every family, you have to make sure that you can you're comfortable with that monthly payment because you are gonna be paying it for 30 years, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So I want to bring a topic up that I think a lot of people don't talk about underground oil tanks. We've been listing properties recently that have underground oil tanks, and it brings a lot of concerns for buyers, right? It brings concerns for the banks, it brings concerns for also home insurance. Oil tanks underground are very, my opinion, little is dangerous because you cannot see what's going on underground, right? It's not visible, right? If something's not visible, it's kind of scary.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You're right, because you don't know what's going on. What's your opinion on underground oil tanks, Angelo?

SPEAKER_00:

I think oil tanks in general, right? I didn't think too much of it until we started getting offers for certain homes that we had, where it was basically like banks were saying that they weren't going to be able to approve the home because they had an underground oil tank. That was the first time I ever heard of that. And I was like, oh wow, I guess, yeah, that's a thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Especially FHA.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but it depends on the lender, right? Because some of them will still do it, right?

SPEAKER_01:

So to all those homeowners and buyers out there that are purchasing a property with underground oil tank, you have to verify with the lender. You have to verify that it won't be no issue to get the loan approved, right? Because when the appraiser comes, right, and they see that it's underground, they have to know that it's an underground oil tank. You have to verify with the lender, right? That you will be approved with an underground oil tank, right? Of course, to all the buyers, make sure you do an inspection to the oil tank, right? You want to make sure there's no leaks in it, right? Some of most of these oil tanks underground, they have warranty. Not all of them, all right? They have warranty, but most buyers don't like it. Why they don't like underground? Because you do not know if it's leaks inside the oil tank. How leaks happen is usually from the tree, like the roots. You don't know if the roots go through an oil tank or could possibly cause those roots, they are so strong, Andrew. They could go through a wall, they could go through a house of those trees. So that's why a lot of homeowners don't like trees on their property premises, particularly because it destroys sidewalks, it destroys, you know, destroys oil tanks, you know. So that's the reason a lot of homeowners do not like oil tanks underground, right? It's a big red flag. Another red flag, too, Andrew. You have to make sure that your home insurance will be able to cover your house, knowing that there's an oil tank underground, right? So you have to verify with the homeowner, homeowner insurance, you have to work out also with the lender to make sure that the property will qualify. What I've been doing is this I actually sold the house, right? Our client loved the house, but they were very concerned about the oil tank. So to put an oil tank above ground in average is from like 7500 to 1200, depending who's doing the work. I always recommend everyone to get at least three estimates from professionals. Do not go to the first one. A lot of people tend to go to the first one like they're desperate. No, I will go to at least three, look at their reviews, and everyone has a different opinion, everyone has a different information. So I recommend everyone to hire three different professionals on it doing the above oil tank. So if you have an underground oil tank, you want to sell your house, I kind of recommend you to put it above ground because it brings a lot of red flags to the buyers, a lot of concerns. We have seen buyers submit offers, and after they analyze and go over it with their family, they back out because they're concerned about the oil tank. But what we've been doing is we submitted an offer to a property that had an underground oil tank. What we do is that we tell the seller, hey, we'll we'll move in with full asking, but you need to put the oil tank above ground. Also, have in mind you have to make sure it's with a licensed plumber and also with permits. Why? Because you want it to be inspected, right? And also have that oil tank underground removed completely in the oil as well. And you want proof of it. You want documents, you want who did the job, you want the license plumber, you want the permits where it indicates that it was removed correctly and professionally.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, open and closed permits, basically.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so just make sure that the oil tank it's if you buy the house, because a lot of people do buy a house underground, they have no issue with that. Just make sure you inspect it.

SPEAKER_00:

No, absolutely. I I feel like everything that you said is basically what the bank is also looking at, saying, like, look, roots can come in, they can kind of make havoc into like the oil tank, and then there's a leak, and then it's gonna be very costly if there's a leak because now that's an environmental hazard. Correct. And now you have to work with what department is that Department of Health. Department of Health, yeah. And that costs a lot of money because now you got to remove all the soil treated or or something like that.

SPEAKER_01:

So it becomes bigger than what it is, right? But reality is it's called safety, right? The hazard, right? You have to make sure the environment is safe and oil, it's serious. You don't want it to be, you know, any lease in the oil tank. So it's definitely important to get it inspected. It's definitely important. I recommend to all buyers to request the seller to put it above ground. All right, so it won't be no any it won't be no hiccups or any surprises throughout the transaction.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, exactly. And it's better for everyone, right? It's easier for the lender to give you the financing, it's easier for you to get insurance and stuff because underground oil tanks are just like a gamble, honestly. Because you know, it starts raining, yeah, the water starts going to the the metal of the oil tank, and then it starts getting corroded, right? And it's just like a bunch of stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

It's better to have it visible, so have it your basement, I would say. Also, one one one thing I would do, like, because some people use the oil tank for heating and also for the hot water. Just use the oil tank for heating. Don't use it for the hot water. Why? Because then you don't have to use the oil tank all year round, you will only use it for the winter, which is the three months, right? It's you would save more money than it's better to have an electric hot water tank than having it through oil, then you would have to be filling up your oil tank all year round. So most people don't want to deal with the truck coming to their property. It's best to just have it those three months. So convert your hot water to electric hot water.

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. If you convert your electric to hot water, you can also you can remove gas and oil as well. You can remove like the boiler and just put many split units everywhere.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's so many options. So, how how can you save money, time, and it's more convenience, I would say. Yeah, I like to do things like what's convenient, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

Like what's the most convenient. I think that's why a lot of people are going into mini split units. Sometimes people say it looks ugly. We have one up here. I don't know. Well, the camera won't pick it up, but we do have one and it's very good.

SPEAKER_01:

Very convenient. Yeah, it's very good, very sufficient. But I have another thing I wanted to talk about, Angela. Yeah, about kinetic. To all my homeowners out there, right, especially when you're selling your house, right? Tend to turn off utilities, for instance, the electric and the gas. What's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00:

I think that they do that because they want to save money, right? Um even though they're not really using it, since they probably turn off all the lights and stuff before they kind of like leave the premises. But sometimes I believe Con Edison might take away, might lock the thing.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's a it's a big reflex, right? I recommend to all homeowners not to turn off the utilities, right? Especially on your contract of sale. Most standard contracts of sale, because they're all different depending on the attorney, most standard contracts of sales, that language of utilities being on prior to closing, right? Why they do that is because of this. Because, for instance, if you have your electric and gas, yeah, you want to save money, but in the long run, it's affecting the buyer. How? Right? Let's say, for instance, the big one is gas, right? If you have it shut off, right, for a long time, it could be three, six months, Kineticson will come and put a lock on the gas meter outside of your property, and you won't the buyer won't be able to turn on the gas. What happens is that the buyer now will have to hire a licensed plumber to come and turn and basically file permits to turn on back the gas meter on, right? That will cost a buyer easy five to ten thousand dollars on this. So, what I recommend to all buyers before you purchase your property, yeah, of course you have to do a walkthrough, right? You have to go make sure the utilities are on, but if it's not on, always call kineticson. You you're you're you could call kinetics and give them the address, and they will give you the information. And the only information they will provide is if the electric and gas is on, right? It goes right versus also with the electric. If you shut off the electric, right, they come and put a lock on the electric meter outside, and then you have to hire an electrician to go and start the process of turning it back. But guess what happened to me one time, which is huge. Yeah, even me that is in the business, I'm in the business. And this is, you know, you learn throughout the business. I bought a property, it was a flip that I bought, it was in the Bronx. I had the electric meter, right? It was the gas meter was there, but there was no gas in that property. So what I decided to do was, you know what, I'm gonna do the entire house electric. Hot water, electric, heating, electric. So I was all right, we can just do everything electric because the process of turning a gas line, it could be six months to a year. It's a long process, which everyone hates the process of turning a gas meter on, right? So what I did was that I was like, all right, let me call Connecticut, let me turn on my light on under my name, right? Everything should be running. So guess what? When I'm in the process of doing that, Conetison's like, hey, you don't you do not have a meter in the property. And I was like, no, I do. I'm looking at the meter right now. He's like, no, no, no. That's that meter is that's weird. You're not supposed to have a meter, and this house haven't had a meter for over a year. Apparently, the previous owner, I don't know how he did this, he was stealing light from the city. So Kenetizen was coming to me, wanted to find me and all this, and then what saved me was you know, you gotta have your facts. I just got the deed. The deed was just recorded, and it just showed that I just became the owner. So the previous owner was stealing light from the city to the property, and Connecticut came instantly, removed the meter, removed how they were stealing the light, and I had to file permits, file the whole process with an electrician. It cost me, I think if I'm not mistaken,$12,000 to get the electric back in there, have the meter installed by a professional, have an electrician come and do all the wiring inside the property. It cost me additional additional$12,000. So, guys, when you're buying a property, make sure you call kinetics and just to verify that the meet everything's running right, which is the electric and the gas. Make sure you call Conetison. Of course, do your walkthrough, make sure it turns on and off. But if you want to have a safe route, call kineticson just to make sure that everything in that household, utilities, because it don't have to be really kinetic. What's the other ones? Nationals. Oh, national grids. I think national grid.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, national grid, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And of course, in Westchester County, they have different ones. So just make sure you call utilities prior purchasing your property. Yes, do the walkthrough, but just call to confirm that the utilities are good and everything's running right inside the house. They were staining light. I can't believe that. I bought the house, they didn't know, but guess what? Once you buy the house, guys, this is the biggest thing. It's your responsibility and it's on you. It's a new owner, a new deed. Everything falls into you. Yes, you could come and try to sue and go that route, but by the time you sue, everything you have everything's off.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Wait, wouldn't this have been something? Oh no, I was gonna say, wouldn't title be liable for this? But no it wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01:

Title have nothing to do with utilities.

SPEAKER_00:

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01:

The only thing you could be a little bit liable is that the seller signs a contract sale saying that utilities would be on. Second thing is the property disclosure form. It acts as what utilities that is under, and it acts as like I think that's what it acts, but it the the most you could probably get is the contract of sale. But why put yourself through that situation when you could use this as a fact that just call the utility? It happens all the time.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

I have sellers that that they they turn it off all the time, and I that's the first rule I give them. When I see the house is vacant, do not turn it on to it. I know you want to save money, do not turn it off because it's gonna cost you. Because if a buyer finds out now, you have to come and hire a plum and electrician to what to have it on, and they could cost you five to fifteen thousand. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, it's gonna cost you a lot more in the end than you're what you're trying to save.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. And I think the biggest point of today, Angelo, what is it? Copa, Copa real estate.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, community opportunity to purchase act.

SPEAKER_01:

This is huge, guys. For all those investors out there. This is huge. The community opportunity to purchase act. What is it, Angelo?

SPEAKER_00:

It gives nonprofits for a first chance to buy certain multifamily buildings. The goal is to preserve affordable housing, applies mostly to four plus unit buildings, so meaning you know, four four apartments or more. And the nonprofits must pay market value. Supporters say it protects tenants, credit could say it's it slows transactions, uh huh. And COPA is changing the process, not ownership rights. So interesting. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

This is gonna be an interesting topic on COPA. I mean, you know, for tenants it's gonna be good, right? Because now the city is gonna try to have the first hand to purchase the property, and also the city and the nonprofits, they're gonna have first hand, right? Basically first dip, right to purchase, right? If they do not want it, then it goes to the public. Well, what happens is that it's gonna delay closings, it's gonna delay um sales for commercials.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's gonna delay it because you can't even put it on the market until like 180 or 120 days. You gotta announce it to the HPD? Yeah, to HPD that you're gonna do that so all all nonprofits can basically come in and put their bids on it if they want to. And then once that 120 or 180 day grace period is over, then you can publicly post it. And if they do not go that route, I was told that they get fines of$30,000.$30,000. So I think how generally this is gonna work out is that if you have a lot of equity in the home and stuff like that, then you're probably just gonna get you're just probably and it's a high sell price, you're probably just gonna take the hit and say, Yeah, just give me the$30,000 fine.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, some or they're gonna make the buyers pay. I'm pretty sure, you know, people are gonna have to adjust and adapt to it and figure it out, but it's a lot. I mean, to me personally, it's like the city taking full control now. They're getting, you know, they they want to get full control of these buildings, they want to protect the tenants. It's just gonna be too much. I just think it it to me personally, if I was buying, I wouldn't be buying.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think we were having this discussion earlier where we were like, you know, this came up, so that's probably gonna be another uh$30,000 per per building that's gonna be put into the city's budget and stuff like that. And then we were talking about congestion tax as well, like that was another thing.

SPEAKER_01:

I think the city they want to be involved in everything now. I think they just want to get full control, and I just think they want to be involved in everything possibly, which is of course real estate is the biggest thing, right? But being involved now into basic controlling about the purchase, I think it's a little bit too much. It's like as a homeowner, all right, what rights are you giving the the landlords? Mm-hmm. It just become too much. I think it's yeah. It hasn't fully been it hasn't b gone in effect completely now. It's just I guess they're just waiting for the new uh mayor to sign off on it. Mm-hmm. But I think this is gonna bring a lot of issues. And you know, it's it's it's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be very interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

It's gonna be very interesting. I think the main problem is that there isn't enough housing in New York, right? And the the new housing that's being developed, it's so high. The rents are so darn high, right? You might as well just start buying a home instead of like renting because like all the new buildings, you've seen it, they're like luxury buildings.

SPEAKER_01:

Like it's it's crazy now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and the rents for like a one-bedroom now and the bronze that are like luxury and stuff or like three thousand five hundred and stuff like it's like Manhattan prices.

SPEAKER_01:

It's skyrocket, right? I mean, I was telling my wife that's like if someone's not making a hundred to one hundred fifty thousand a year, it's tough to re live in New York. Yeah, to be honest with you. New York is it's it's becoming every day more expensive, right? So now they're doing it. I think that copa is gonna be very interesting. I think it's gonna be a lot. Yeah, I mean, they want to take full control of these buildings now, and yeah, the commercial real estate, like it could easily drop. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean I think buyers are gonna investors are gonna rethink buying these buildings now.

SPEAKER_00:

Without a doubt, I think investors are gonna be very bummed out about this, right? I think the general public is kind of saying that there's a victory for the main people. I think honestly, just housing in general is a very hard subject in New York because everyone wants to live here. Everyone that can possibly like afford it, even month month by month, they want to live here.

SPEAKER_01:

New York City's where it's I mean, everyone complain. I'm gonna tell you something. This is the state that everyone complains about, but nobody moves.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You very see most people, of course, when they retire, they're like, all right, I had it with New York. But you retired, right? But you made where you made the best living is in New York, best money.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. But you this is the state that you see everyone complain but doesn't leave. Right. They they said all the billionaires and everyone was gonna leave and when Donnie got elected. Who left?

SPEAKER_01:

Didn't even see it. Yeah, I I don't think I really saw it, right? I think New Yorkers, you know, they they just have emotion states and they go up and down. But the reality is that we just go through emotion states, but at the end of the day, everyone ends up staying in New York.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, like congestion tax. Everyone's like, oh my god, this is the end of the world.

SPEAKER_01:

And now it's like it was affecting the first like month. I would say it was slowed down, but now you go to New York City, oh my god, you can't even drive. Yeah, it's still the same, pretty much. Pretty much the same. But it hurts in certain ways that New York, right? Everyone wants to live there, everyone wants to be part of New York, but I just feel like New York City is finding always ways to be part of making their profit. Yeah, and I think sometimes they gotta slow it down a little bit, they gotta also let business owners also not only business, but everyone in general, like let them win their their their pie as well. Not they they they they want to be part of everything, and that's the only thing that bothers me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think the the main issue uh aside from housing is that they don't know how to manage their budget, and I think that's why they're trying to get more and more money everywhere, you know, and trying to get their hands in everything to add to the budget that they they aren't really basically having enough money for. Yeah, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, guys, I want to tell everyone happy holiday. I want to tell everyone thank you for supporting us. Thank you for honestly to all those friends, family members that have us in mind, that refer us so much people. We really deeply appreciate you guys. We want to wish you guys the best holiday. Want to wish you a new happy new year, and we just want to wish you the best. I know times are sometimes hard, and we want 2026 to be all about love and peace for everyone. And honestly, I hope everyone achieves their goals and dreams in 2026 and be closer to your family.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. You can do whatever you want, you just gotta put your mind into it, and hopefully 2026 is the day your dreams come true.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I think 2026, I'm looking forward to it. I'm excited. Yeah, I'm excited to enjoy with my kids and my family and my my team. I feel like 2026 is gonna be a great year for all of us, for everyone, and just keep it positive. I think we need to find ways how to better ourselves, how to be a better person. I was just telling you earlier about what I want to do as a person as a personal goal. But I think we should always look to find peace. We should always look to just, you know, get along.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. Life's too short to be like all like bitter about other people and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's not it's not worth it. It's just find ways to be happy, whatever makes you happy, and just be happy. But I think more than anything, we need to be grateful. Yeah. I think you know, we all need to work on how to be more grateful in life. So, guys, I just want to wish everyone a happy new year and many blessings to everyone.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, guys. If you have any questions, leave them down below.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, guys. Take care.

SPEAKER_00:

Bye guys.

SPEAKER_01:

Bye guys.